See this news article on the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8275788.stm
It seems that, rather than focus on the issues that matter in this economic recession, Salmond et al are more concerned about symbolic areas of importance to SNP scotland alone.
Maybe if they spent more time focusing on infrastructure, business grants, transport changes and inner city regenerations then Scotland wouldn't be struggling so much.
Saturday, 26 September 2009
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A fair and neutral observer would surely say that the SNP has clearly done a fair bit to focus on infrastructure, business grants, transport changes and inner city regenerations. Certainly as much, if not more than the previous Scots administration. And if Scotland is "struggling" is that not largelly due to mismanagement of the economy, the major levers of which are controlled by the UK labour government?
ReplyDeleteWhere are the fresh ideas from the labour party? Has Labour become simply an anti-SNP, UK nationalist party?
It seems like your mother is more concerned about symbolic areas of importance to SNP scotland alone.
ReplyDeleteOh come on, ditch the Labour party. The problem with this whole set up is that you are locked into idolizing Brown and the rest. They are all fundamentally dishonest people. Why associate yourself with them?
My mother?
ReplyDeleteHi folks
ReplyDeleteWith the utmost respect I really think the Labour party has totally lost it. New labour is now more like an authoritarian Tory party than a radical socialist party. Look no further than Labour’s proposal to inter teenage mothers to demonstrate the odious depths to which they've plumbed.
It seems that all Labour have to offer us is in Scotland is narrow UK nationalism and endless Nat-bashing. No to independence at all costs. No, despite the fact that it gives us the opportunity to forge a MODERN political relationship with the other nations of these islands based upon parity: a new modern, politically egalitarian Britain. No, despite the fact that it gives us the opportunity to achieve our economic potential. No, despite the fact that it gives us the chance to become a truly progressive, socially just, prosperous, internationalist country.
No ambition. No drive. Simply continual nay-saying and fearmongering.
But arguably more important than the constitutional issue is the Labour party’s lurch to the right. So much hope in 1997 dashed away after 12 years of massive underachievement. When Gordon Brown reeled of Labour’s list of apparent achievements (some of which could only be partly attributed to Labour at best) I thought is that it??? That is what should have been done after one year of a truly progressive social democratic party! In 1997 Labour had the chance to truly change Britain for the better. It’s what we expected! It’s what Britain voted for. However, Labour failed to deliver and in so doing failed the people. Labour unashamedly moved to the right, and despite a few decent policies and endless lip service to social justice we find ourselves in a position 12 years on where the gap between rich and poor is greater, where there are persistently high levels of pensioner and child poverty, where there are continuing assaults on civil liberties, where there is STILL an unelected hereditary House of Lords, where we have been involved in an illegal war and are embroiled in another unpopular, costly and unnecessary one. What a shameful legacy! What a bloody disappointment.
Vote Labour? No thanks. I'll stick to my leftist principles. I beseech you guys to do the same and to put your weight behind a truly social democratic movement.
Which truly social democratic movement is this?
ReplyDeleteWell, first of all under Labour the levels of pensioner and child poverty has dropped dramatically - due to Labour's policies including the winter fuel allowance, child tax credits and the inflation busting increases in the basic state pension. Pensioners are massively better of under Labour. And our children are better off under Labour. We've provided the equality of opportunity that has been so desperately needed. With record levels of funding in education, record numbers of teachers and teaching assistants and a massive amount of new schools and new sports facilities - that is a legacy and achievement to be proud of and will be something that will really reap the rewards when children are allowed to tackle any avenue that interests them. And if they want to go and learn further there is the EMA and more bursaries and grants to ensure that they can.
ReplyDeleteOn the issue of the unelected House of Lords, you may have missed the part last week where finally abolishing the hereditary peers was discussed.
And we are not a continual nay sayer - disagreeing on an incredibly important issue like independence can't be divided into simply ai's and nays. In an incredibly complex issue and should be treated as such. I, personally, feel that Scotland shouldn't be independent (as does about 70% of other scots). Not because I don't believe it won't survive (RBS aside) but because I believe that Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom are at their best when we pool our resources achieve a great deal. Put it this way, we didn't win the world wars as separate countries, we didn't fight this economic recession as separate countries and we will struggle to fight global warming, terrorism and anyother supranational incident as separate countries. We work best when we work together.
And I am a leftist and I am a pragmatist and I know that the only way for progress to occur is to vote Labour. I put my weight behind a party ready to lead, to make change and to continue to work at improving this country.
A small comment here from a former comrade, the only party who can stop the cuts that the tories today announced is the labour party, the only party who will defend those who the tories historically attack is the labour party.
ReplyDeleteAt times we love the party at times we hate it but all of us on the left have to rememebr that labour out of power will lead to a disaster with the party in it ignoring the interests of those who need it most.
In scotland we have the snp more interested in the fight to break up our country rather than serving our nation, or the tories in westminister who want to attack those on benefit or working in the public sector as nothing but scroungers or cheats.
If you believe in a progressive britian, if you believe in real help, real oppertunities and real change for those at the bottom of the ladder then you only have one real choice and this is labour.
As kyle has said look at what the party has actually done in power, yes its made mistakes but its heart is in the right place and that is on the side of the real people of this country and not the bullingdon club brigade.
peter
Anonomous # 2
ReplyDelete"Which truly social democratic movement is this?"
Well there's a choice. The Lib Dems, SNP and Green party are all to the left of the Labour Party.
Hi Kyle
In 1997 there were record levels of child poverty in Scotland (30%). Since then there has been a reduction to 23%. All progress is welcome and I applaud that, but my point is that child poverty levels are still too high - persistently high - and progress has stalled since 2005. Frankly, Labour did not invest enough and didn't effectively redistribute wealth to help eradicate child poverty. Similarly, there are still 2 million pensioners living below the poverty line in the UK. After 12 years progress has been far too slow. A missed opportunity one might argue.
I welcome Labour's investment in Schools. Credit where credit is due.
On the House of Lords I didn't miss Brown's vacant pledge. You may have missed the fact that it was in the 1997 Labour manifesto. Promises, promises.
On independence, as I pointed out independence provides us with the opportunity to forge a MODERN political relationship with the other nations of these islands based upon parity: a new modern, politically egalitarian Britain. We shouldn't let a narrow British nationalistic interpretations of our shared past stand in the way of achieving optimal egalitarian regional unity in these islands and a direct role for Scotland in the wider international community as an equal sovereign nation. Supranational problems such as climate change must be combated on an international, global basis. I want Scotland to leave behind a restrictive, archaic 18th century regional union and become a full, equal member of the 21st century global union.
Progress is far too slow under New Labour. In some areas such as civil liberties there has actually been regression. There are social democratic alternatives to Labour. This is the reason why I won’t be voting for a party that has on too many occasions strived to out-Tory the Tories.
Hang on, indepedence gives Scotland just one thing. Independence. Greater egalitarianism and progress are the result of good policy, independence or no independence. As an example, the constitution stated the high ideal of 'all men are created equal'. The political reality has still not been met. I don't think the SNP have the ideas or the answers to the vast inequalities that exist in Scotland. Lets hear some policies from the SNP that show they have the solutions for this.
ReplyDeleteAnd this stance is not a narrow nationalistic interpretation (a bit of double edged sword coming from a nationalist). As an English born man with a scottish heritage marrying the daughter of welsh heritage, this union isn't archaic. It works.
Oh and by the way, talking about promises. Of the five major pledges that Tony Blair stated - class sizes, health care, crime and punishment - all have been achieved.
The SNP haven't just not met their promises, they've scrapped them.
Independence will make Scotland independent. Everything after requires the political will and fight neccessary. So far, the SNP have none of that.
Hi Kyle
ReplyDeleteIndependence will give Scotland the same powers as our partner nations elsewhere in Europe. With a socialist/social democratic majority in our nation we will have the opportunity to use those powers to implement the “good policy” to achieve “egalitarianism and progress”. It has been achieved to a much greater degree in the internationalist and (primarily) social democratic Scandinavian nations. With the will to put the people first we can achieve it in Scotland. The SNP (and the Green Party) wishes to provide the people of Scotland with the power to grow our economy to its potential, increasing our nation’s wealth which, through redistribution, can raise our living standards. Therefore, in one sentence, it has been demonstrated that the pro-independence parties have greater ambition and more solutions to Scotland's problems than the moribund and negative Labour Party.
With the utmost respect, I find it rather bizarre of you to label me as a "nationalist" only to go on to justify your support for the 1707 Act of Union through use of shallow ethnic British nationalism. In talking of “double edged swords” you have utterly missed the point of my previous point. I am a global citizen. No offense but I don't give a damn about your lineage, or the lineage of any of my other brothers and sisters. We don't need to be ruled from a building in Westminster to show solidarity with the rest of the citizens of these islands. What will "work" is equal and modern political relations founded upon diversity and respect. What doesn't "work" is a blinkered narrow adherence to an outdated imperial regime which denies us the economic levers to effectively tackle social injustice. The way forward is closer European and Global interdependence. Why not have Scotland as an equal partner? Britain is the name of this Island. We will always be British. Therefore, what reason is there to deny Scotland equality within the wider European and global union?
It is very tenuous to suggest that Blair’s five major pledges have been “achieved”. Perhaps progress has been made but if there is a belief that they have been “achieved” amongst the wider the Labour Party than you are more out of touch with the people of Britain than I first feared.
On the SNP’s record. Considering they have a majority of one and, according to economists, a tightening budget, I think they have done rather well. Certainly their record of achievement and levels of activity in the first two years of power have vastly out-stripped that of the previous administration. Perhaps the other so-called social democratic parties in the Parliament could work with the SNP in delivering, for example, progressive and fair local taxation rather than working with the Tories to prevent it.
And that’s what it comes down to, Kyle. Socialism. Social Democracy. Social Justice. New Labour just doesn’t get it.
Hi Kyle
ReplyDeleteIndependence will give Scotland the same powers as our partner nations elsewhere in Europe. With a socialist/social democratic majority in our nation we will have the opportunity to use those powers to implement the “good policy” to achieve “egalitarianism and progress”. It has been achieved to a much greater degree in the internationalist and (primarily) social democratic Scandinavian nations. With the will to put the people first we can achieve it in Scotland. The SNP (and the Green Party) wishes to provide the people of Scotland with the power to grow our economy to its potential, increasing our nation’s wealth which, through redistribution, can raise our living standards. Therefore, in one sentence, it has been demonstrated that the pro-independence parties have a greater ambition and more solutions to Scotland's problems than the moribund and negative Labour Party.
With the utmost respect, I find it rather bizarre of you to label me as a "nationalist" only to go on to justify your support for the 1707 Act of Union through use of shallow ethnic British nationalism. In talking of “double edged swords” you have utterly missed the point of my previous point. I am a global citizen. No offense but I don't give a damn about your lineage, or the lineage of any of my other brothers and sisters. We don't need to be ruled from a building in Westminster to show solidarity with the rest of the citizens of these islands. What will "work" is equal and modern political relations founded upon diversity and respect. What doesn't "work" is a blinkered narrow adherence to an outdated imperial regime which denies us the economic levers to effectively tackle social injustice. The way forward is closer European and Global interdependence. Why not have Scotland as an equal partner? Britain is the name of this Island. We will always be British. Therefore, what reason is there to deny Scotland equality within the wider European and global union?
It is very tenuous to suggest that Blair’s five major pledges have been “achieved”. Perhaps progress has been made but if there is a belief that they have been “achieved” amongst the wider the Labour Party than you are more out of touch with the people of Britain than I first feared.
On the SNP’s record. Considering they have a majority of one and, according to economists, a tightening budget, I think they have done rather well. Certainly their record of achievement and levels of activity in the first two years of power have vastly out-stripped that of the previous administration. Perhaps the other so-called social democratic parties in the Parliament could work with the SNP in delivering, for example, progressive and fair local taxation rather than working with the Tories to prevent it.
And that’s what it comes down to, Kyle.
Socialism. Social Democracy. Social Justice. New Labour just doesn’t get it.
I'm a wee bit sad that you didn't publish my response to your last comment. However, it should come as no surprise given New Labour's track record of refusing to listen and airbrushing dissent! ;-)
ReplyDeleteNevertheless thank you for debating with me. It was very enjoyable.
Maybe one day we will be on the same side and in the same organisation campaigning for a social democratic Scotland and a fairer World.
Kind regards
SD
Sorry not publishing it was my fault. I didn't realise that the article was old enough to pass into moderation. I get both notification of comments posted and comments moderated emailed to me which is why I didn't notice that I needed to approve it.
ReplyDeleteAnyway it's been posted now. :)
Thanks Nahuatl! :-)
ReplyDeleteBest wishes
SD